Forum Camoin du Tarot

[Paul]

Here's a question asked by a friend about his best friend, who has been growing very close to him, but has had difficulty moving past a prior relationship hurt with another person and trusting again in the experience of love/romance/eros. Notwithstanding, they grow closer all the time, but the friend is ambivalent. The "platonic" nature of the friendship has been belied by the underlying emotional tension and vibe of romance. The querent has felt the relationship moving further than friendship, but still ambivalent.





I'm going with Yes. Liberation (XX) leads to uprighting dormancy (XVI reversed). Am I missing something?

[Paul]

The friend wanted a follow up question. These follow-up questions could be answered by the present tirage, but we drew another tirage at the preference of the querent.

Are X's love/erotic feelings for Y (the querent) actually inexorable. The querent's friend is "X". The querent reported that he felt that the underlying love/passion/eros of the "friendship" was dormant, suppressed, ambivalent, but palpable and inexorable on the part of X-- meaning that it was not easily denied or altered or checked in the ultimate scheme of things, and would come to fruition due to the...inexorability...of the dynamic feelings. He described that the "unofficial" status of their union (just friends/yet more and not being officially acknowledged/but palpable) would have to be acknowledged by the friend in time. He asked for confirmation.





I looked for the concept of inexorability, given the specific wording of the question.

My interp: In the past, the eroticism/passion is toyed with (Le Diable + Le Bateleur) in response to the tension and confusion of LRDF and La Force, both reversed, which is the up and down passion of the friendship, the confusion. The querent's friend is represented by Le Bateleur, who regards Le Diable. Indeed, the friend has demonstrated romantic overtures to the querent, but without completion. Le Pape/La Papesse seemed to aptly represent the querent's description of a desired official status with his friend. La Papesse (the friend) regards Le Monde, reversed, and Le Pendu, reversed. Both cards repeat the idea of stuckness, of a situation that is dormant and must be released, like an unborn foetus (Le Pendu). Le Pendu mirrors Le Monde, but when both cards are uprighted, Le Monde looks away from Le Pendu and regards the couple of Le Pape and La Papesse, at which time the obstable of L'Hermite is dead (killed by XIII). So, I took this drama to mean that, if the solutions are applied, the obstacles are removed, and the ambivalence of XII becomes irrelevant. I also believe that L'Hermite (reversed) is the "other man" of the past. In an interesting twist, the other man left "Y" because he wanted to join the monastery. So, it's interesting that, in order to move forward, "Y" has to get over the Monk.

In the future, XIII seeks to kill Le Pape. This is a problem. Le Pape may represent the platonic coupling/union by himself. Or, Le Pape is the counterpart of La Papesse who sits apart from Le Pape, obscured by L'Hermite, reversed. I went with option #2, finding the coupling of V and II more cogent, since the question was about an unoffical couple becoming official. Once uprighted, XIII kills L'Hermite, leaving a natural couple to "meet" officially, because L'Hermite is dead, so to speak. The querent reported that this coupling with his friend has been frustratingly unofficial and without label. And, I think the real import of this is more so is the skeleton’s uprighted (and therefore proper) orientation; in such an orientation, the skeleton is executing L’Hermite, who stands in the way of La Papesse and the “official” union of Le Pape + La Papesse. So, the Tarot is saying, when the problem is solved, the “other man” from the past will be made irrelevant.

Looking for cards that could stand in for “inexorable,” I was intrigued to find heavenly cards with celestial phenomena that could not be denied, so to speak. When I thought of the cards of the Tarot that could represent such a concept, I was looking for celestial-ish cards. So, the repetition of Le Jugement and La Maison Dieu seemed to confirm that the romantic feelings of Lamoureux VI are in fact inexorable, by repeating the concept: XX + XVI + VI. The feelings start off in the cognitive realm, L’Imperatrice [III], but they end up released in Le Toille [VII]. She is also fecundating VI. I felt the top row means to say:
“Inexorable [XX] Inexorable [XVI] romantic feelings [VI] move from mental realms [III] to materialize [XVII].

If inexorability did not appear in the top row, I would be more persuaded to say that there are too many problems on the bottom row to be resolved by the solutions. But, the question was about inexorability of feelings, which seems to be confirmed in the solution row. This inexorability uprights the bottom row into the completion [XXI] of an official coupling [V + II].

Finally, using the Law of Extremities, XV + XVII seems to mirror the querent’s wording of passion and eros.

Ideas? Disagreements?

[Paul]

Correction:

This: "In an interesting twist, the other man left "Y" because he wanted to join the monastery. So, it's interesting that, in order to move forward, "Y" has to get over the Monk."

Should read, In an interesting twist, the other man left "X" and hurt him, because he wanted to join the monastery. So, it's interesting that, in order to move forward, "X" has to get over the Monk.